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Bigelow Testimony

From the National Archives, Washington, D.C., Record Group 49, Records of the General Land Office, Division K, Townsite Files, Skagway Townsite, Price et al. vs. Bernard Moore.


The first witness called by J. G. Price et al. was William A. Bigelow, a scout and packer who had been in Alaska since 1889 and was very familiar with the Skagway and Dyea area. He had visited the place that came to be known as Skagway several times, to which he testified in detail, and described what he saw each time he visited, in the way of improvements and infrastructure. In the spring and summer of 1897, Bigelow went into partnership with George Rice of Juneau to pack goods on the Chilkoot and White passes. He testifies that in early June 1897, the Moores asked him to come and work for them packing for their workers on the White Pass Trail. As he was doing so, the rush began. Bigelow’s detailed testimony as the buildings present in 1896 and 1897, indeed those present in late March 1897 and their uses was critical in the final award of ownership. Bigelow gave some of the longest and most detailed testimony of the entire trial.


Edited by Catherine Holder Spude, November 2011.

Map of improvements to the Moore Claim as they appeared in September 1897, as taken from the Garside Map. Map by Catherine Holder Spude off the 1898 Garside Map, Exhibit C, Skagway Townsite Files. The polygon is the 160 acres claimed by Bernard Moore. "North" is a reference north. The south boundary line approximates the high tide meander line spoken of in the testimony.

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          U. S. Land Office, Sitka, Alaska.


The hearing in the Moore case being called for this day March 30, 1838, was at the request of the attorney for the applicant adjourn­ed until 2 P. M.


The hearing was called at 2 o'clock, p.m. Present: Register, Receiver and Surveyor-General, and the parties in interest. Counsel for applicant offered affidavits of Chas. E. Cole and Bernard Moore showing service of notice of this hearing under the protests on file.


Preliminary to the hearing on the protests counsel for the applicant moves the Board to dismiss the protests of the protestant Frank A. Twichell for the Alaska Southern Wharf Co., and the Protestant John G. Price, which according to the files in the Land Office were received and filed on the 16th day of Feb­ruary, 1898, after the period of publication had expired, and before that therefore such protestant cannot be heard.


The motion is overruled by the Board for the reason that a protest and contest may be received upon the day appointed for taking proof, or any subsequent day to which it may be adjourned within ten days, under section 22 of the regulations governing non-min­eral entries in Alaska, to which ruling the claimant excepts. J. G. Price asks that the protests and contests initiated by the Alaska Southern Wharf Co., Emery Valentine et al, and J. G .Price et al be joined and made one issue, in so far as the testimony of any witness for one protestant shall affect the others that it shall be considered in connection with the others. Mr. Winn for the Alaska Southern Wharf Co. and Emery Valentine et al., joins in this request.  To which request counsel for the claimant objects for the following reasons:


First:  That upon the roofs already submitted and passed upon by the Land Office, the claimaint is entitled to his entry.


Second:  That if it shall hereafter appear from the evidence under the protests on file that he is not entitled to the possession



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[first two words illegible] must determine individually, and separately, the several rights of the protestants, if any, as against the claimant Bernard Moore.


Third:   That from the protests on file it appears that the protestant, J. T. Field, and the protestant Emery Valentine et al., and the protestant F. A. Twichell for the Alaska southern Wharf, Co., and the protestant John G. Price, all assert title to the same pieces or parcels of land included within the exterior boundaries of the official survey of this claimant, now a part of the records of this office, and that the rights of each claimant must be settled by this Land Office upon the protests they have filed, and the testimony taken thereunder.


The objection to the motion is sustained for the following reasons:


That the protests appear as of two classes, those claiming adversely and one who makes no adverse claim, and it would be in the minds of the Land Officers manifestly unfair not to allow the claimant a chance to meet each claim as it is presented, in its entirety.


To which ruling protestants except.


The hearing was then adjourned until 9 o'clock a.m. March 31, 1898.





The hearing was called at 0 o'clock a. a. March 31, 1898. At the request of counsel for protestants, they were associated each with the other in each of the protests coming on for consid­eration, with the exception of the protest of J. T. field. The protest first called for hearing was that designated as J.O. Price, et al.


W. A. Bigelow was introduced as a witness in behalf of protestant, who being duly sworn testified as follows: [Questioner is J. G. Price unless otherwise indicated.]


Q. State your name and residence?

A. Bigelow, residence Skaguay, Alaska.

Q.  How long have you been a resident of Alaska?

A.  Since 1888.


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Q. Are you acquainted with the claimant for this land in contro­versy, Bernard Moore, and, if so, how long have you known him?

A. Since 1889.

Q. Do you know the land in controversy? And, if so, how long have you been acquainted with it?

A. Since August, 1886.

Q. State the character of the land and the conditions of improvements, and who, if any persons, were occupying it at that time?

A. It was a barren piece of gravel, a portion of it, and a por­tion of it heavily timbered with underbrush. No improvements, with the exception of a log structure. Nobody occupied it.

Q. When did you first have knowledge of Ben Moore occupying or claiming any portion of the land now in controversy?

A. It was in September or October of that same year, 1889.

Q. For what purpose was he occupying it at that time, or claiming it, if you know?

A. If I remember right the conversation that occurred, his father and him had taken up a place there.

Q. Did he state at that time for what purpose?

A. He said they had a wharf in there, but he thought the wharf had gone out, at least he understood it had.

Q. Bid you at that tins know approximately where the south line of the premises was that Ben Moore was claiming at that time?

A. Yes sir.

Q. You may also state, if you know, whether any other property or claim lay between that of Bernard Moore and Skaguay Bay?

A. Not at that time.

Q. You may describe as nearly as you can Ben Moore's south line at that time?

A. (Witness states that he will have to refer to the nap to answer the question.) that he knew where the posts were but didn’t know which way the lines run.


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Q. Now you may state Mr. Bigelow where the location post was with reference to Ben Moore's present dwelling house?

A. The location post was about 200 feet from his house.

Q. Which direction approximately?

A. I couldn’t give that without looking at the nap.


Witness looks at map, and states southerly direction.


Q. You may state whether it was towards the bay?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Was you ever acquainted with a tract of land known as the Wheelock and Flannery claim?

A. I have heard talk of it but wasn’t acquainted with it.

Q. Do you know the present boundary lines of the Ben Moore claim?

A. Yes sir, I know the boundary.

Q. Do you know the present boundary lines of the townsite of Skaguay.

A. Yes sir.

Q. How long have you been acquainted with the tide line, or the character and extant of the ebb and flow of the tide on Skaguay Bay?

A. Since June, last year, the 27th.

Q. Do you know approximately where the ordinary high tide line is on that water front?

A. Above Ben Moore's southerly line.

Q. Approximate as near as you can the average number of feet the ordinary high tide line comes above Ben Moore's southerly line?

A. I should judge from 2 to 4 feet.

Q. Do you mean from 2 to 4 feet straight up and down, or 2 to 4 feet on the surface of the ground?

A. Two to four feet deeper. What I mean is that there is water enough to float a good sized vessel to discharge cargo in just below his house a little ways.

Q. How much of that time between the fall of 1888 and the present tine has Ben Moore been in the actual occupancy of this land in question?


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A. Well I couldn’t answer that question directly and give you the exact time he has put in on the place. Six and 8 months in a year and up to a year and a half ha wasn’t up in that part of the country at all.

Q. In the year 1889, and you may follow down each year, what was Ben Moore doing on those premises and how long was he there?

A. In 1888 I didn’t see Ben Moore there.

   In 1890 I didn’t see him there.

   In the winter of ‘90-'9l Moore was working for the Chilkat Canning Company. I didn’t go up to the house at that time. There was some piling set in the ground as though it was taken up for a wharf.

Q. Was it piling or posts, and what was the extent of it?

A. Four or five posts set in the ground on the beach right where the tide cams up against it.

Q. What sort of a habitation, if any, was on the lands in '91?

A. I didn’t see any outside of the house and this improvement.

Q. Describe the house?

A. I did not go up to the house.

Q. State if you know about how much of the time Ben Moore occupied this land in 1891.

A. That I could not answer.

Q.  In 1892?

A. That I could not answer.

Q. Was you acquainted with the premises or was you at or on the premises during any one of these two years?

A. Yes sir. In 1892 I was in there prospecting for a while.

Q. You may state whether or not there had been any clearing done at that time?

A. There was no clearing.

Q. Was Ben Moore occupying it at the time during these two years you were there?

A. No sir.



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Q. State what you know with reference to his residence and occu­pancy on this land in 1893?

A. That I couldn’t tell you.

Q. Was you at or on the land in 1893?

A. No I was not.

Q. Do you know where Ben Moore was during that year?

A. No sir, I do not.

Q. State what you know with reference to the residence and occupancy of Ben Moore in 1894?

A. I wasn’t up there in 1894.

Q. Do you know where Ben Moore was during that year?

A. He was fishing at Chilkat.

Q. State what you know with reference to the property in '95 and Ben Moore's occupancy of it?

A. I wasn’t up there in '95.

Q. Do you know where Ben Moore was during the year 1895?

A. I do not.

Q. state what you know with reference to the occupancy of the premises in '96 by Ben Moore?

A. Ben was on the place in '96.

Q. When did you first become acquainted with the premises again in ‘96?

A. In February.

Q. You may state in full what improvements, clearing, was done on the premises at that time?

A. There was a log house and that was all.

Q. Was it completed?

A. No sir.

Q. Was it occupied by any persons?

a. No sir.

Q. Was that the only improvement on the premises?

A. There were several tents around.


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Q. You may state in what Ben Moore was living, if anything, at that time?

A. Ben Moore was living in a tent.

Q. Is the house that you have spoken of as being uncompleted still on the premises, and if so, what house is it with reference to Ben Moore's improvements?

A. It was the house he is living in at present.

Q. State if you know when this house was completed and when Ben Moore first moved into it?

A. That I could not answer.

Q. State whether or not he occupied it in '96, if you know?

A. In the Spring of '96 he went into the Yukon with the mail.

Q. When did he come out from the Yukon?

A. I think it was sometime in October.

Q. During all that time was Ben Moore's family residing on the land, if you know?

A. I do not know. 

Q. Now up to this time you may state if you remember whether there had been any plowing or breaking for a garden by Ben Moore or any other person?

A. No. I was there at different times of the years and he might have had a garden there, but if he did I never saw it.

Q. Has there ever been up to the present time any sod broken around Ben Moore's house and indications of a garden being there?

A. Not that I ever saw.

Q. Would you have seen it if there had been any sod broken there and the pursuits of agriculture followed, any faming or gardening done?

A. I think I would have seen it.

Q. Now up to the fall 1896, that you have been testifying about, has Ben Moore ever had any cattle, horses, swine, goats or any other animals there?

A. I never saw any.


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Q. Would you have seen them if they had been there?

A. I think so.

Q. Up to the fall of 1896 had Ben Moore conducted any trade or been engaged in any manufacturing pursuits on these premises?

A. Not that I seen.

Q. Was there any other thing or improvement on these premises except this uncompleted log cabin that you have spoken of?

A. No sir, not that I see at the time I was there.

Q. How much of the premises was you over during the summer of ‘96?

A. I was not there in the summer of '96. I was there in February '96.

Q. How much of the premises was you over at that time?

A. I was there with a surveying party and I used to go from our tent to Ben's and visit one another.

Q. If there had been any trading done, any manufacturing, or any evidence of agricultural pursuits, or any stock on the premises would you have known it?

A. Yes.

Q. When was you next on the ground?

A. I went there in May, the next year.

Q. What was there on the ground at that time and what improvements had been made,

A. There was what they called the “Mess house" and what they called Capt. Moore's house, that was partly finished, and a log stable, some cows I think 4 head, and 2 head of horses, and some pigs. And the log cabin where Ben Moore lived.

Q. Did he reside there at that time with his family?

A. He was there but I disremember whether his family was there or not.

Q. At that time was Ben Moore any gardening or farming, or conducting any trade or manufacture upon the premises?

A. Not at that time, no sir.


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Q. Who was occupying what you term the Mess house and what was it used for?

A. It was used for a Mess house by geo. Buchanan, Mr. Escolme, and I think Mr. King.

Q. Who wag Geo. Buchanan and what was he doing there at that time?

A. He was foreman there at the time of the wharf.

Q. Who was Mr. Escolme and what was he doing?

A. Mr. Escolme appeared to be the boss of all of them then so far as I know.

Q. Did you have any conversation with Ben Moore during the Spring of '97 with reference to Ben Moore doing any work for anyone or with reference to his occupying that place at a stated salary?

A.    He told me he was working for $2. a day.

Q.    For whom was he working?

A.    For the company.

Q.    State what company, if you know?

A.    I did not know at that time.

Q.    State if you know if it was the company or either one of them that have had any interest in what is known as the Moore dock and in the saw mill at Skaguay?

A.    No, he did not explain to me which company he was working for.

Q.    Was it one of those companies?

A.    Yea sir.

Q.    During any part of the summer of 1897, state whether or not Ben Moore was employed and drawing wages from any person or persons?

A.    That I couldn’t state only at the time he told me,  that was in May.

Q.    How much of the summer of '97 was you on the townsite of Skaguay or on this land in controversy.

A.    I went over there June 27 with some pack horses,


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and have been there ever since.


Q. when was what is known as the Moore dock built or when was commenced?

A. It was commenced in the spring of '97, commenced to drive piles.

Q. State if you know who built that dock and who had charge and control of it during all the time it was being built?

A. Geo. Buchanan had charge of the work.

Q. State when the saw mill on these premises was built?

A. That was built in the latter part of August.

Q. State if you know who built the saw mill and who has had charge and complete control of it?

A. A man by the name of Hill.

Q. You may state whether Geo. Buchanan or this man Hill were either working for Ben Moore or were either subordinate to him in authority?

A. It was understood that Ben Moore was working for Buchanan.

Q. Did you get your understanding from anything that Ben Moore said?

A. If my memory serves me right, I think he told me he was working for him. He always appeared to be obeying Buchanan's orders.

Q. From where was the piling obtained that the dock was built with? Off Ben Moore's claim, or otherwise?

 A. There was a portion of it taken off Ben Moore's claim and a portion off Buchanan's.

Q. Where were the logs obtained that were used in the saw mill, both in the building of it, and the manufacture of lumber?

A. They was taken from Buchanan's claim.

Q. who had charge of the logging and who built the skid road from Buchanan’s claim to the saw mill, if you know?

A. A man by the name of King.

Q. Was he an employe [sic] of Ben Moore, or an employe [sic] of the company that run the mill?



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A. He was a contractor, he was getting the logs out by contract is what he told me.

Q. You may state for whom?

A. For the Mill Co.

Q. Who built the skid road?

A. Mr. King built it.

Q.(By Mr. Price) Here is the plat that was introduced in evidence. (Shows plat to witness). There is a store building situated directly east of Mess house heretofore testified about, I will a sk if you are acquainted with that store and with its location?

A. Yes sir.

Q. When was that store first built and when was it first occupied as a place for merchandising?

A. They were building it the latter of June and got it completed the first of July, last year. In July it was first occupied.

Q. Who was it occupied by and state approximately the manner and amount of merchandise in there, or anything else?

A. It was occupied by a man by the name of Billingham and Holmes.

Q. Who was Billingham and who was Holmes and what was their nationality, if you know?

A. They were Englishmen?

Q. Bid Ben Moore have any control or exercise any supervision over this store?

A. No sir.

Q. Do you know whether or not Ben Moore obtained his supplies for family use from this store?

A. That I couldn't state.

Q. What was the extent of the stock of goods in this store at that time, and what was it generally speaking?


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A. That would be hard for me to say what the valuation of the goods were. Canned goods, canned meat, dried fruits and lime Juice.

Q. What was the size of the building?

A. About 12 x 16, I think.

Q. Was that building open for trade during all the time? State what you know generally concerning that?

A. At the time there wasn't much trade carried on there. In fact, the building was locked up about two thirds of the time.

Q. Has Ben Moore ever had, to your knowledge, any control or supervision over that building or the business carried on in it.

A. No sir.

Q. What proportion of the time, say from the first of October up to within the last sixty days has that building been open for business and trade?

A. I should judge perhaps, while I was in town, about one-third of the tine, hardly that.

Q. That kind of a door and what kind of fastenings has it there?

A. It is a common lumber door with a heavy padlock on it and clasp.

Q. How many openings in the front and whats[ sic] the size of them?

A. None whatever outside of door. No windows.

Q. Do you know a large log building immediately adjoining this store building on the south?

A. Yes sir.

Q. You may look at the map of Garsides and state whether not it is the building designated thereon as a log warehouse?

A. It is the log house immediately adjoining this store.

Q. When was that house completed, and who by if you know?

A. It was completed I think in the neighborhood of 3 or 4 weeks ago I couldn't tell who finished it.


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Q. State whether or not Ben Moore did it, if you know?

A. No Ben Moore did not.

Q. You may state who started the construction of that building and when it was started and how you know?

A. A man by the name of Harry Holmes employed me to haul out the logs for him.

Q. Did Ben Moore have any connection, either directly or remote, with the construction of that building, and how much work was done on it, up to the recent date that you speak of its completion?

A. Ben Moore had nothing to do with the building, putting up of the logs, what I mean is as far as loggers work is concerned. The house was not finished until not long ago and it was started in August.

Q. State if you know for whom Holmes was acting, for himself or others?

A. I do not know.

Q. At any of this time did Ben Moore exercise any authority, con­trol or supervision over the construction of this building?

A. No sir, not that I knew of.

Q. Was Harry Holmes in any manner, if you know, under Ben Moore or in his employ?

A. He was working for Escolme and Billingham.

Q. For what is this building being used at the present time?

A. Jail I believe. City Hall.

Q. And is it in the charge of Ben Moore?

A. No sir.

Q. Look on the map introduced by Garside and state if you are acquainted with the 12 x 16 knock down house immediately east of this log house that you have just been testifying about?

A. Yes sir.

Q. State if you know who put that house there?

A. Harry Holmes put it there.


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Q. You may state if Ben Moore ever did or at this time occupy this house, or have any control over it?

A. No sir.

Q. Referring again to the Map Mr. Bigelow, and to the designated spot thereon as saw mill bunk house, I will ask you if you are acquainted with that premises?

A. Yes sir.

Q. When was that house built and by whom?

A. It was built by Kr. Hill. It was commenced along in October 1897, and finished in November or December, 1897.

Q. State whether or not Ben Moore has over occupied or had any control or supervision over this premises, and for what pur­pose it hast been used?

A. It has been used by Mr. Hill for a bunk house. He has never occupied the house.

Q. You may state whether that house you have just been testifying about is on that premises or any where near there at the pres­ent time?

A. No sir, it is not.

Q. With reference to the saw mill on this Garside plat Mr. Bigelow, where is this house now located that you have just been tes­tifying about?

A. It is down on the flat at present. It is about 50 or 60 yards from the saw mill towards the town.

Q. Is the Ben Moore that you have been testifying of, one and the same J. Bernard Moore the applicant for this land?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Referring to the map (Garside) again, I will ask if you are acquainted with the premises lying in an easterly direction from the saw mill bunk house just testified of and designated as a stable and office?

A. Well I believe they are using the house as an office. Yes sir I am acquainted with the premises.


[page 15]


Q. Who is the office part occupied by and for what purposes if you know?

A. Mr. Cole has an office there.

Q. Does anybody reside there?

A. I think yes, Capt. Moore stops there, Ben Moore's father.

Q. When was that house built and who by, if you know?

A. It was built last spring by Capt. Moore.

Q. State whether or not it was built on any subdivision of ground conforming to the plat of the citizens of Skaguay, and whether or not Capt. Moore claimed that subdivision as a town lot?

A. He built the house before the town was plotted off, and claimed several lots in around adjoining. I don't know how manyQ. Is that house on one of these lots claimed by William Moore as a lot?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Now referring again to the Garside map, I will ask if you are acquainted with the premises designated there as a hotel, being directly north of the promises just testified about?

A. Yes sir.

Q. State what size building that is, what it is used for, who it was built by and about when?

A. I should judge the building waw about 30 ft. x 40. Built by Capt. Moore.  It is at present occupied by a banking firm, real estate agents, and also a hotel. It was built in Jan. or Feb. 1898.

Q. Referring again to the Garside map, at a point about the mouth of Skaguay river and running in an easterly direction to a point southeast of the saw mill, I will ask if there is at the present time, or ever has been, to your knowledge, a barb wire fence across there?

A. Never has been.


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Q. From the last described point, thence running in a northerly direction to a point about 132 ft. south of the southeast corner of Ben Moore's present enclosure, thence running west and southwest to about the point of beginning,  is there now or has there ever been a barb wire fence for pasture for horses,  or for any other purpose?

A. No sir.

Q. Was that body of land that would lie within the outer bounda­ries of the alleged fence just described ever enclosed for pasture and state the character of the land?

A. The character of the land is such that it is covered with flood wood. It was never enclosed.

Q. Within the limits of that alleged enclosure is the character of the land such, or has there been any vegetable life, in the nature of grass or pasture?

A. Well there was a very little grass in spots. About as much as a man could pack, in a gunny sack.

Q. Isn't it a fact that about all of that portion is covered with tide water every 24 hours, and the balance of its [sic] is sand and gravel tide flats?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Referring to the Garside map, at a point about half way between Ben Moore's house and the hotel and store, I will ask if there is at this time or ever has been, a barb wire fence running from the trail south and connecting at a point at the last alleged described fence?

A. In August 1897 I saw a piece of fence there about 5 rods long.

Q. You may describe what is known as the present enclosure of Ben


[page 17]


Moore's, when and under what circumstances it was enclosed,and about how many acres it contains?

A. Around Ben Moore's dwelling there is a barb wire fence. It was enclosed along about the middle of September, 1897, it contains from three to five acres.

Q. Going back to the inquiry about the hotel building, I will ask if that sets [sic] on the lot claimed by William Moore that you testified about?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Referring again to the Garside map, and beginning at the south east point on the plat running diagonally across to about the north-west point, there is designated a wagon road. State if you know when that was first opened through the timber and by whom?

A. There is no wagon road running in that direction through there now. Two years ago this last February, Joe Field out a trail through there, and there was a skid road or what you might term a logging road cut through there last year. I do not know whether King cut it or whether Mr. Moore out it, for at that time there was trails all through the woods.

Q. Prior to the time of the settlement of this piece of ground by its present citizens, did Ben Moore ever out a trail of any character across his claim?

A. That I do not know.  There were trails there but I do not know who out them.

Q. Do you know who laid out the first general trail that was used there?  

A. I think Joe Field laid out the first trail through there, I know he did.

Q. The balance of these trails were [sic] out and run through after the town had begun to settle up?

A. Yes sir.


[page 18]


Q. Referring to the Garside map, in the vicinity of the bunk house, store, hotel, log ware house, at the first of August, or at the time this was settled by the citizens, had there been any clear­ing done in that vicinity?

A. There had been some brush out in around what they termed the old mess house and in around back of the store, brush was scattered around piled up in places, trees standing, some small underbrush was cut that was all.

Q. What would you say as to the extent of it, what portion of an acre.

A. Making a rough guess, I should Judge about 6 rods by 10 rods.

Q. I will ask you if Ben Moore at the present time, or during your acquaintance with him has been a man of any means what­soever?

A. I never considered him a man of means or he wouldn't have been there. He wouldn't be up in this country.

Q. Do you know of anything aside from that, is he a man that has to work for a days living, state if you know?

A. He had to work for a living.

Q. What trade or business is Ben Moore now engaged in on this tract of land?

A. He seems to be a gentleman of leisure, I never see him doing anything at present.

Q. State whether or not he exercises any control, supervision or management whatsoever over what is known as the Moore dock, the Alaska North west^ Territories Trading Co's saw mill, the Co's store, the Co's boarding house, the saw mill bunk house, Captain Moore's business block, or any other premises or buildings testified about, excepting his personal residence?

A. I do not know. 

Q. State if you know what that is (hands witness paper)? Yes sir.



[page 19]


A. It is a bill head used by a firm up there engaged in the mercantile and lumber business.

Q. What particular place and where were they engaged in business on this contested premises?

A. They were doing business in the store that Ben Moore is claiming.

Q. What lumber business ware they engaged in?

A. Well they had shingles there to sail.


Counsel for protestant offers in evidence the Bill Head mentioned which was received and marked as "Exhibit A". No objections being offered.


Q. Does Ben Moore conduct an annual trade and business on this premises to the value of fifty thousand dollars a year?

A. No sir.

Q. Has there been any business or trade conducted on this prem­ises for a year?

A. No sir

Q. Did you ever have any conversation with Ben Moore with refer­ence to your occupying any portion of this premises or land?

A. Yes sir.

Q, State when, where, and what it was.

A. It was at Skaguay, about the 20th of May, 1897, he told me if I would move my pack train over to Skaguay and help them open up the trail he would give me ground enough to build a corral, stable, or other ground that I needed.

Q. Now you may state what you did in pursuance to that?

A. I moved my horses over there the 27th day of June, cleared away a place for my tent, built a corral, cleared away a place for a hitch rack for my horses, and packed provisions for Captain Moore's men who were working on the trail.

Q. Did you ever have any further conversation with him with ref­erence to getting your land, if so, state what that was? And when and where?


[page 20]


A. It was in Skaguay, I think about the 10th of June, I asked him where he was going to give me the ground for my corral, he told me that he would have to see his father, that he had put his business all in the hands of his father, and the mat­ter dropped, I didn't say any more about it.

Q. Are you now claiming by occupation or otherwise any ground that is with­in Ben Moore's exterior lines?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Can you describe it by lots or blocks?

A. I would have to refer to the city chart in order to do it.

Q. I will ask you if the west half of lot 4, block 1, now occu­pied by you and being just south of Capt. Moore's hotel and bank building, was cleared, occupied or improved prior to the time you first went on there?

A. No sir. There was nothing to clear, no trees on it. There is [sic] two trees standing there now.

Q. Where was William Moore working on the trail and how many men did he have working under him at the time you speak about pack­ing for him?

A. In May he had two men at work on the road, on the trail,(1897) in July he had 10, 12, or 15 men at work.

Q. Where were these men working? On Ben Moore's claim? If off of Ben Moore's claim where?

A. They were working on the trail at what is called Porcupine Hill, about 5 or 6 miles above Skaguay.

Q. Who did you deal with, with whom did you make your packing con­tract?

A. Mr. Hill.

Q. Is that the Mr. Hill spoken of as managing the saw mill?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Where did you get your goods to pack and who did they come billed to, if you know?


[page 21]


A. I got ay goods from what was called a slush house. The goods were shipped to Geo. Buchanan.

Q. From whom did you receive your pay?

A. Mr. Hill, Supt. of the saw mill.

Q. Did Ben Moore have any connection either direct or remote with the receiving, handling or conveying those goods that you packed?

A. No sir.

Q. The claimant, Ben Moore, has testified that he has constructed a 12 ft. wagon road from tide water across this 16O acres, and up the Skaguay river about four and one-half miles. Now just tell all you know about the construction of this wagon road?

A. When that wagon road was cut through there, I was in Dyea. That was the time he promised ne my corral ground if I would come over while they were working that trail. But I don't know who out the trail, who put up the money for it, whether Ben Moore did it or who did it. The citizens done quite a con­siderable work in there.

Q. Has any part of those premises ever been used for grazing pur­poses?

A. Very little of it.

Q. Did Ben Moore ever own any horses on there?

A. He said he didn't.

Q. What did he say in connection with that?

A. He said the company owned them.

Q. On the 16th day of February,1898,or at the present time, was the saw mill on those premises in operation?

A. No sir, it has been closed down since about first of Nov. last year.

Q. He testifies here to having two small warehouses with tent roofs. Do you know of any such property?

A. No sir.

Q. What do you approximate the value of the improvements placed


[page 22]


upon that promises now owned and occupied by Ben Moore.

A. I think one thousand dollars would cover it all.

Q. Do you know whether or not Ben Moore'e claim of land under his location in 1888, if any part of it touched or fronted on Skaguay Bay or any other tide water?

A. It did not.

Q. Do you know who occupied or claimed the portions of land be­tween the 1888 claim of Ben Moore and Skaguay Bay?

A. in 1896 Joe Field took a claim there I think.

Q. Is there any of these improvements testified about, excepting the house of Ben Moore, situated upon his original location? If so what are they?

A. That I could not tell without referring to the city chart. (Witness refers to blue print of city of Skaguay). The old mess house and company's store and log house.

Q. Is the saw mill testified about above or below ordinary high tide line?

A. The saw mill is right at ordinary tide. They float logs to it every tide.

Q. Directly across the Skaguay river running parallel with the Ben Moore claim lying between it and the range of mountains, how many acres approximately of level ground is there?

A. Perhaps an acre or two.

Q. Is there any other possible wharf facilities on Skaguay Bay excepting that included within the lines of Ben Moore's claim?

A. No sir.

Q* Is there any other route getting to or from White Pass without passing over the present claim of Ben Moore?

A. No sir, there is not.

Q. How much of the summer of 1896 was Ben Moore on that premises?

A. Couldn't have been very much when a man made a trip to the Yukon and back.




Q. At the time he was gone did his family reside there, or elsewhere.

A. I don't know.

Q. Do you remember a circumstance last fall in connection with this Mr. Hill that you have testified about, undertaking to tear down some property of men who were locating a restaurant there?

A.  Yes sir?

Q. State what you know about it and for whom he was acting?

A. After the old gentleman had gotten his tent up and got to doing business, Mr. Hill went to him (Counsel for claimant objects to the testimony on the ground that it is hearsay.


Objection overruled and witness proceeds to answer, counsel for claimant excepts to the ruling) and told him he would have to get off from there and attempted to tear the tent down, that he had no business there and that land belonged to him and his company.

Q. Mr. Moore states in his cross examination that on or about the 6th of July, he landed in Skaguay merchandise to the extent of $500. some horses, lumber and that he put men to work there at that time. State where Ben Moore was at that time, in 1896?

A. Now I don't know where he was in that month. That is the year he went into the Yukon with the mail. He went in June and came out in October, I think.

Q. What do you know about him building a large floating dock, 33 x 60 ft. and building some bunk houses in the fall of '96?

A. I wasn't there the fall of '96.

Q. Do you know one E. E. Billinghurst?

A. Yes sir, I have met the gentleman.

Q. What connection did he have, if any, with the control and man­agement of affairs on the Ben Moore claim?

A. He appeared to have all the management of it.

Q. Do you know where him residence was?

A. Victoria, B.C.


[page 24]


Q. Did you ever have any conversation with Ben Moore with ref­erence to his dealings with these companies, and what interest they had up there? The Alaska Northwestern Territories Trading Company and the Skaguay Bay Associations?

A. Yes Sir. He told me that there were two or three companies represented there, men from Victoria, B.C. The mill company was entirely different from the trading company. I have heard him make several remarks from time to time about then not send­ing any money up to pay the men off.

Q. Do you know what country Mr. Billinghurst is a citizen of?

A. I would take him to be an Englishman.

Q. Is Ben Moore at the present time, or did he in the past con­duct a dairy business on that place?

A. No sir.

Q. State what you know with reference to the citizens of Skaguay assisting by persuasion and force to help keep some few unscrup­ulous individuals from breaking down the enclosure and taking possession of the ground now occupied by Ben Moore?

A. I was away at the time it occurred.

Q. What is the population of Skaguay approximately?

A. Three or four thousand people there I guess.

Q. Is it laid out in blocks, alleys, and streets?

A. Yes sir.

Q. What is the character of the improvements?

A. Churches, dwelling houses, general business stores, saloons, theaters, dance halls, brewerys, electric lights and water works under construction. They are all of a substantial nature.

Q. Any vacant unoccupied ground, or is it all claimed and occu­pied by settlers except what Ben Moore claims or occupies?

A. It is all occupied and claimed except what Ben Moore has enclos­ed.

Q. From your knowledge of the facts and circumstances, does it


[Page 25]


require 160 acres of land, if not, what portion of 160 acres of land would it require for Ben Moore to conduct" all the business, trade or manufacture, he has ever owned or controlled?

A. About 2 acres and a half.

Q. You may explain Mr. Bigelow in full with reference to your answer this forenoon in connection with the front of that store building testified about?

A. When that building was put up, I was there at the time they were putting in their canned goods, little stock that they had, and I was assisting the carpenter to hang the door. Mr. Billingham came along and he told me that it was a pity he hadn't any window for the front of that building. He only had one small window for the side. And after I come to think the mat­ter over, I found that I had made a mistake. They have removed the window from the side of the building and put in the front of the building.  It is not a whole window, one sash.


Cross examination by Judge Delaney for claimant.


Q. You came to Alaska in 1888? What time?

A. Yes sir.  In July.

Q. When were you first on this 160 acres of land?

A. In 1889. July or August, somewheres along there.

Q. How long did you stay at that time?

A. Camped there couple of nights.

Q. Anybody else on the ground besides yourself at that time?

A. One man with me.

Q. Anybody occupying the ground?

A. Didn't see anybody there.

Q. Any buildings or structures on the ground at that time?

A. There was a log structure.

Q. Thats the log house now occupied as a part of Ben's residence?

A. Thats the one.

Q. Did you go to the house.

A.  I did not.


[page 26]


Q. Then you don't know whether there was anybody in the building or not?

A. If I had thought there was any one there I would have went up.

Q. Did you know whether there was any one there or not, or do you now know?

A. I was satisfied in my mind that there wasn't any one there. I saw no signs of habitation, no people around.

Q. Where did you camp along the beach close to the waters edge or did you go up into the highlands a little ways?

A. We camped on the bench.

Q. Did you go up on to the highland, did your business call you up through the timber any distance?

A. Yes sir. I camped in a kind of rooky nook on the right hand side.

Q. Did you go back far enough to ascertain what the character of the land was up the valley of the ground now claimed by Ben?

A. No, I didn't go way up to the rear.

Q. What portion of the ground however you concluded was timber?

A. I found later on in the course of a couple of years that it was timber.

Q. When were you next there?

A. At different times.

Q. Were you there after August l889?

A. No.

Q. Were you on the ground in 1890?

A. Yes. Along in the spring.

Q. How long did you remain then?

A. Didn’t remain long, was wind bound there.

Q. Did you go ashore?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you have in the way of a water craft? Canoe or Sloop?

A. Fish boat.


[page 27]


Q. Was you alone?

A.  No.

Q. Who was with you?

A.  Some men.

Q. Where from?

A. Seward City.

Q. Their names?

A. I disremember their names.

Q. Anybody on the ground then?

A. I didn't see anybody.

Q. Did you go to the log house that time on that weather bound trip?

A. No sir.

Q.  It was the fall before that in September or October that you first heard that Ben claimed the ground?

 A. Yes sir.

Q. Then you understood on that trip that you was weather bound that Ben had laid a claim to 160 acres of land in there?

A. Yes.

Q. In the conversation you had with him in September or October, 1889, Ben told you that he and his father had taken up a place there?

A.  Yes sir.

Q. In the spring of '90, on this second trip you made over there, did you know definitely where Ben's lines were?

A. I did not.

Q. You stated in your direct examination, at the time Ben told you that he and his father had the claim there, that Ben's south line didn't come out to tide water along the shore?

A. I might have made a mistake as to the year I saw the notice there.

Q. You are not quite certain as to the year you saw the notice?



[page 28]


A. I was in there prospecting, I think it was in '92, that I saw the notice.

Q. When did you make your third visit on the ground?

A. In ‘92.

Q. And from the spring of '90 until '92 you don't think you were in there?

A. No sir.

Q. What time in '92 was it that you were there?

A. The middle of the summer, if I remember right.

Q. How long did you stay that time?

A. I think it was three or four days.

Q. Were you alone than?

A. No.

Q. Who was with you.

A. A watchman from the cannery.

Q. Tas there any body on the ground then?

A. No sir.

Q. Did you go to the log house that time?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Did you notice any other improvements aside from the house on the premises in '92.

A. Nothing but the log cabin.

Q. That trip you were there 3 or 4 days?

A. Yes.

Q. Couldn't you give us an idea what month it was you was there in '92.

A. I was up there twice that year in the spring and summer.

Q. Do you remember what month it was you was there first in '92?

A. Along in March.

Q. How long did you stay there that time?

A. Four or five days, I disremember how long.

Q. What called you in there that time?

A. Wind bound.


[Page 29]


Q. What month were you there In the summer?

A. I couldn't tell exactly.

Q. Was that the time the watchman was with you?

A. No the watchman was with me the first trip.

Q. Anybody with you on the summer trip?

A. No.

Q. Didn't find any body on the premises at either time?

A. I saw a schooner lying there at that time, the first trip in March.

Q. Do you know whose it was?

A. Do not.

Q. Was she beached or at anchor?

A. Beached.

Q. Did you go to her?

A. No.

Q. Didn't see any body with her?

A. No.

Q. Did you go to the log house that time?

A. I disremember whether I went up that time or not.

Q. You don’t know whether there was anybody there or not at that time?

A. I do not know.

Q. Were you there in 93 or 94?

A. No.

Q. Were you there in '95.

A. I was there during the winter of '95 and '96.

Q. What month?

A. In February.

Q. ‘95 or  '96?

A. ‘96.

Q. Was you alone that time?

A. No sir.  I was not.


[page 30]


Q. Who was with you?

A. There was a survey party with me.

Q. Who?

A. One of the parties [sic] names was Seeley.

Q. How many were in the party?

A. There were five.

Q. Did you do any surveying, or did the party?

A. Yes sir.

Q. At that time or up to that time had you seen Ben's notice of location?

A. He showed it to me at that time.

Q. He was occupying the log house then, wasn't he, I mean Ben?

A. No sir.

Q. Was any body occupying it?

A. There was some horses in it.

Q. Thats the time that you visited back and forth between his tent and yours? Is that the time you mean?

A. Yes, I believe thats the time.

Q. Were you connected with the survey party?

A. Yes sir, I was employed by them.

Q. How long was you there that time?

A. About one month.


Thereupon the hearing was adjourned until 9 A.M. o'clock April 1, 1898.

Hearing was resumed at 9 o'clock a.m. April 1, 1898.

Present same as on preceding day.  Cross examination continued.


Q. In 1894 Ben was fishing at Chilkat?

A. Yes sir.

Q.    Where were you living at that time?

A.    I was at Chilkat, Chilkoot and in the Interior.

Q.    How long was you at Chilkat?

A.    I was there couple of months.

Q.    What time of the year?

A.    In the spring and Fall.


[page 31]

Q. How long was you at Chilkoot?

A. Chilkoot and Chilkat comprises the same thing practically speaking.

Q. What month did you go into the interior?

A. August and July.

Q. Do you remember how long you stayed?

A. Wasn't long.

q. Month or six weeks?

A. About 2 weeks.

Q. Do you know how long Ben was fishing at Chilkat during that season of '94?

A.  I think he fished the season out, he commenced the first of the season.

Q. How far is Chilkat from Ben's claim at Skaguay Bay?

A.  About 18 miles.

Q. Who was he working for then? Which cannery was he fishing for?

A. He was fishing for the Chilkat Canning Co.

Q. Do you know where he went after the season was over?

A.  I do not.

Q. In the month of February, 1897, when you were at Skaguay how long did you remain?

A.  I stopped there about 4 days.

Q.  When did you return?

A. In June.

Q. Who was on the ground then?

A.  Capt. Moore, Mr. Escolme, Mr. Billinghurst, Buchanan, Benjamin Moore. Thats all that I remember at present.

Q. At that time the mess house as it is called was partly completed.

A. The mess house was completed, yes sir.

Q.  And the log stable?

A.  Yes sir.

Q. A few head of stock on the ground, cows, horses and pigs?


[page 32]


A.  Yes sir.

Q. Any other buildings going up at that time?

A. Yes sir, Capt. Moore's house.

Q. Was there any clearing around that house and the mess house at that time?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Did you notice anything in the way of a fence around that clearing?

A. I see four or five posts set in the ground.

Q. Anything on them, wire boards or rails to indicate a fence?

A. Yes sir, some barbed wire.

Q. Thereabouts was that with reference to the house that old man Moore had built?

A. I would have to refer to the map in order to show you.

Q. Was it toward the river or toward the bay from the house, or was it up toward Buchanan's claim up towards the valley?

A. It run on a line between Benjamin [sic] Moore's house and Capt. Moore's house.

Q. Up and down the valley or across the valley?

A. Across the valley, as I would term it.

Q. Parallel with the water front, approximately?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Do you know whether there was any goods or merchandise put into this building of Capt. Moore's prior to the time the store was built?

A. That question I could not answer. I mean to say I don't know.

Q. And you don't know whether any goods were sold or any trading done in the Capt.'s house before the stock was put into the store?

A. I do not know.

Q. With reference to the tide overflowing the meander line of Ben Moore's claim: from a depth of two to four feet that you tes­tified to yesterday, do you wish to be understood that that was


[case 33]

case along the whole of the meander line of Moore's claim on the water front side?

A. Yes sir.

Q.  In the spring of 1897 you say that Ben Moore told you that he was working for two dollars a day, where did this conversation take place?

A. At Skaguay.

Q.  Can you locate definitely the building or place on the ground where it occured?

A. Yes sir. Between his house and his fathers.

Q. Who was present besides you and Ben?

A. Ben and myself was all.

Q. Can you state what month it was in which this conversation occurred?

A. If I remember right it was in July.

Q. You stated that you went over to Skaguay on the 27th of June with some pack horses, where from?

A. Dyea.

Q. Did you own the pack train?

A. I owned a half interest in them.

Q. Who owned the rest?

A.  Geo. L. Rice.

Q. You stated that during the months of June or July, 1897, the store was first occupied by a man named Billingham and Holmes?

A.  Yes.

Q. How long did Billingham stay in the building?

A. He stayed there two or three weeks.

Q. Have you seen anything of him since he left, has he been back there since that time?

A. I haven't seen him.

Q. How long did Holmes stay there?

A.  Until about the first of October or November.


[page 34]


Q. Is he there now?

A. No.

Q. When you stated in your direct examination that Ben Moore had no control or supervision over the store, I suppose you mean to be understood in person, personally, is that what you mean?

A. I mean to say that he had no supervision over the store personally.

Q. Do you know whether or not the store was being operated in his interest?

A. I have got his word for it. He told me that he had nothing to do with the store.

Q. When was this?

A. It was between latter part of June and fore part of July.

Q. Where?

A. Skaguay, I disremember the locality exactly.

Q. Do you remember who was present?

A. Mr. Holmes.

Q. Dou remember when the log structure that was completed you say within the last three or four weeks was first started, the building of it? [Now city hall.]

A. Yes sir. About the first of August.

Q. Do you know for whom this structure was being put up?

A. I know who employed me to get out the logs.

Q. Do you know for whose benefit the building was being put up, that is who was to own it when it was completed?

A. Yes sir. Harry Holmes.

Q. Did the Captain Moore have anything to do with that building?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. It is located on the opposite side of what is claimed to be a street from the Captain's building, is it not. Nearly across that street there? [Fifth Avenue.]

A. It is on the opposite side of the street. [Fifth Avenue].


[page 35]


Q. It is along side the old store?

A. Yes.

Q.  Thats the structure which is now denominated the "City Hall" is it not?

A.  Yes.

Q. Now farther along towards, that is in the direction of Ben's ground that he has fenced, there is another structure called the knock down house?

A.  Yes.

Q. Do you know who was occupying the knock down house when you first saw it?

A. Yes, Mr. Holmes.

Q. Who is occupying it now?

A. Mr. Price, Dr. Hornsby and Bryant.

Q. The Price you mean, is that gentleman there? (Pointing out the protestant J. G. Price.)

A.  Yes.

Q. How in the opposite direction as I understand it, that is down towards the river, was located the building called the mess house?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Who was occupying that when you first knew the building?

A. An Indian.

Q. When was that?

A. T’was in February, '97,

Q. Was anybody else in the house that you know of at that time?

A. Yes sir. There was two or three men.  I disremember their names. I was one of the whitemen.

Q. Was these people connected with this surveying party?

A. That was another occasion.

Q. Was the Indian and other folks doing any work around there?

A.  No.

Q.  Was the mess house entirely completed at that time?

A. Yes sir.


[page 36]


Q.  Was the bunk house completed?,

A. There was no other house there except Ben Moore's house.

Q. When was the bunk house built?

A. It was built the summer of '96.

Q. Where was that located with reference to the messhouse?

A.  The bunk house and mess house was all one. So considered.

Q. Is the mess house standing there still or was it when you left there the other day?

A. Yes sir, unless the citizens have moved it out of the street. It was there when I left.

Q. The bunk house I believe you testified is now down near the mill? How did it get there?

A. The bunk house and mess house that we are speaking about at present is the bunk, house and mess house that was there when I was there in '96. 

Q. Now then, when was the bunk house that is now down near the mill built?

A. That was built last fall.

Q. Where did it stand when it was first built with reference to the old mess house?

A.  On a line with the old mess house towards the bay.

Q. About how far from the old mess house?

A.  About 200 feet.

Q. Now I will ask you again if you know who moved that bunk house from towards the mill?

A. I saw several citizens around it.

Q.  Name then?

A.  I cannot do that.

Q. Any of them?

A. I saw Mr. Davis of Skaguay, and several others, I.do not know

their names.

Q. They were operating under direction of the city council or some committee of the city council, as you understood it?

[page 37]


A. Thats the way I understood it.

Q. Do you remember, concerning the log house, that Captain Moore engaged you to haul away none of the logs after the Junipers had gotten hold of the building?

A. I don't remember.

Q. Did you haul any away from there at Captain Moore’s request?

A. I do not recollect hauling any for Captain Moore whatever.

Q. Did you haul any away from there at his request, did he engage you to haul them away?

A. He did not.

Q. No you recollect asking him to pay for any logs that had been hauled away from there?

A. I asked him this question. "Who owns this building, I would like to be paid for hauling out the logs?"

Q. How do you remember of asking Ben Moore for pay for some logs for that house?

A. I asked Ben Moore who owned that house I would like to be paid for hauling out the logs. And his answer was "He supposed that Holmes had paid me".

Q. I believe that you stated that in connection with this log structure that you didn't know who Holmes was acting for, whether for himself or somebody else?

A. Harry Holmes employed me to haul out those logs, Dr. Reynolds and other people were there at work, I don't know who they were. I have his word that it was for himself.

Q. In your direct examination did you testify as follows:

   Question by Mr. Price.  State if you know for whom Holmes was acting, for himself or others.  Answer. I do not know.

   Yes I think that is what I said.

Q. Is that statement true?

A. Yes sir.


[page 38]


Q. Now in addition to the structures that we have gone over up in this part of the ground, I believe that you stated that Capt. Moore had built and completed another building now occupied in part by a bank? [the Moore Hotel]. Thats right is it?

A. Yes.

Q. When was that finished, about?

A. The latter part of February or first of March.

Q. And that is right next to the first building where he lives?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Now all of these structures that you have enumerated are in the immediate vicinity of each other?

A. Yes sir properly speaking in gun shot of each other.

Q. The bunkhouse was in the same neighborhood before it was moved down next to the mill?

A. Yes.

Q. Now a word about the pasture, I desire to under stand what your recollection about that it. At any of the different times in early days when you first went on there in '88 and '89 down the time when the ground was taken up by the people who called themselves citizens of the town of Skaguay, was there any pasturage that stock could live on within the area of barbed wire indicated on Mr. Garside's plat?

A. I don't know where that fence is I never saw it.

Q. At the time when the Moore's first went on to that ground was there any pasture on that ground at all?

A. There was very little.

q. How much?

A. There was enough there to keep a cow for 24 hours from starving.

Q. About how many acres should you say?

A. I could not approximate it.  It was terribly scattered.

Q. At the time the Moore's first went on there then, there was


[page 36]


no such area as 83.18 acres of pasture land?

A. I judge that there was not.

Q. How long did you operate the pack train from Skaguay up the trail?   I mean during the summer of '97.

A. From the latter part of June and along in July.

Q. Where was the headquarters of that pack train when you was down town, down at the lower end of the trail?

A. They were at my camp at the corral, when they wasn't on the trail.

Q. Inside Moore's tract of 160 acres?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Did they use to graze any?

A. I turned them out.

Q. Turned them out to graze didn't you?

A. No sir.

Q. Whereabouts is the side line of Moore's claim with reference to the Skaguay river? Is it on the side next to the town or on the opposite side, if you know?

A. On the side towards the town.

Q. Were you on the ground in February 1896?

A. I was there the winter of '95 -'96. I mean winter of '96.

Q. How you testified that Joe Field cut a trail through there in February, 1895, how do you know he did?

A. Joe Field was camped there at the time and also Ben Moore. Fields told me that he had cut that trail.

Q. You don't know it of your own personal knowledge, you didn't see him at work on the trail at that time?

A. I see him there, but I didn't see him at work.

Q. Can you tell where that trail was if you know with reference to Moore's side line towards the Skaguay river?

A. Yes sir. It run in from where I had my corral running tow­ards the river, I should judge in a northerly direction, up the valley.


[page 40]


Q. You don't know how long Field worked on the trail?

A. I do not.

Q. Now how long a trail he out?

A. Well I should judge a half mile perhaps.

Q. Where is Joe Field’s cabin with reference to the Skaguay river?

A. I didn't know that he had a cabin.

Q. Didn't you know that he had a cabin on the opposite aide of the Skaguay river from the town of Skaguay?

A. Yes.

Q. You don't know that he has a cabin on the Moore tract?

A. I do not know that he has.

Q. Do you know who has now the management and control of the Moore dock?

A. I do not know. It is understood that it is Mr. Moore's dock.

Q. When did you first see this paper (Protestants Exhibit A)?

A. When Dr. Reynolds presented to me when I came off the trail.

Q. Do you know whether the Alaskan and North Western Territories Trading Company is a foreign or American company?

A. It is generally supposed that they are an English Company.

Q. Do you know whether it is or not?

A. I should judge that it was by that bill head.

Q. That is a matter of opinion and not of your own knowledge?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Do you know what connection John H. Escolme has with that company?

A. John Escolme told me that he was representing an English company, and I take it for granted that they are an English company.

Q. And that company is the Alaskan and North Western Territories trading company? A. Yes sir.


[page 41]


Q. You are not very friendly with Ben are you?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Is it not fact that you are a little aore over his promising you that land and not giving it to you?

A. Not in the least.

Q. Did you commence this pack run on the 27th of June, the day you got there, or a day or two afterwards?

A. T’was a few days afterwards.

Q. And you were packing provisions for Capt. Moore's men who were working on the trail up the valley?

A.  Yes sir.

Q. Was the Captain up there having charge of the work?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Now you stated that the conversation you had with Ben about your having a piece of the ground was about the 10th of June, when you asked him was he going to give you a piece of ground for his corral and he told you he would see his father?

A. About that time.

Q. Could you swear positively as to the date?

A. No sir, I couldn't swear positively as to the date.

Q. Did you have charge of the train alone when it was working, or did you have some men helping you?

A. I had some men.

Q. How were you packing, by the day or by the pound?

A. I had two dollars a day for each horse.

Q. Who paid you?

A. Mr. Hill.

Q. Settle with him every week did you, or how?

A. He gave me §100. at one time.

Q. Anybody else besides him ever pay you any money on this packing business?

A. No sir.



[page 48]


Q. Who did you settle up with finally when you got through?

A. After I dissolved partnership with Mr. Rice he settled up the account. I don't know who with.

Q. Didn't Geo. make the contract in the first place for the pack­ing?

A. No sir, I made it myself with Mr. Hill.

Q. As I understand it all of the improvements which you have men­tioned in your direct examination including the landing to the wharf, the saw mill, Ben Moore's residence and piece of fenced ground, the structures you have mentioned as being around where the city hall now is, are all within the line of Moore's l60 acre claim as now surveyed?

A.  Yes sir.

Q. In 1896 you say you think Joe Field took up a claim between Ben's original claim of 1888 and the tide flats on Skaguay Bay, did he (Joe) ever put any improvements on it so far as you know?

A. Yes sir. There was some fence posts there.

Q. Put in the ground?

A. Yes.

Q. Whereabouts, along the water front?

A. Along where the drift wood run.

Q. When did you see them there?

A. In February, 1896.

Q. How many of them was there?

A. I didn't count them.

Q. Any boards, or rails, or barbed wire on them?

A. No sir.

Q. Where abouts were they with reference to the water front?

A.  They were running across the flats above Ben's lower line as now surveyed?

Q. About half way across the water front?

A. Yes.


[page 43]


Q. You couldn't tell how many poets there were?

A. No.

Q. Do you know who put the posts there?

A. Mr. Fields told me that he did.

Q. And thats all you know about it?

A.  Yes.

Q. Any other improvements by Field, structures of any kind, log cabin, buildings?

A. Yes sir, he had a tent in which he was living at the time.

Q. When was this, in '96?

A. Yes sir.

Q. What was that a common ordinary portable tent?

A. Yes.

Q. How long was that there?

A. I couldn’t say, sir.

Q. Has there any structures other than this put on by Field?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. Do you know definitely when it was in '96 that Ben went into the Yukon and when he came out?

A. He must have gone in from the latter part of May or June to the first of October.

Q. You are satisfied of that are you?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know that as well as you know anything else you have testified to?

A.  That was to the best of my judgment.

Q. Then you wouldn't swear positively that he left in the latter part of May and didn't get back until October?

A. I only know what he told me.

Q. Do you know where he was after he got back?

A. No sir.


[page 44]


Q. Do you desire to make any explanation as to your statement that in 1800 Ben Moore went in with the mail in June and did not get back until October. "That is the year he went in with the mail (referring to 1896). He went in in June and came out in October".

A. To the best of my knowledge he started in at the latter part of June and when I met him afterwards, if I remember right, he told me that he got out in the fall.  Which, as I understand it would be September or October, I disremember the conversation that occurred.

Q. You say you had a conversation with Moore in which he told you that there were two or three companies represented there, men from Victoria, B.C. That the mill company was entirely dif­ferent from the trading company, when was this conversation?

A. T’was in '97 at Skaguay, I think it was in July.

Q. Can you identify the particular place where this talk took place?

A. I think I can. It was out in the commons.

Q. Anybody present but yourself and Ben?

A. Harry Holmes was present, nobody else.

Q. Where is Harry Holmes now?

A. I don't know.

Q. Do you know how much stock, in the way of cattle, Moore had there in '07? Didn't he have some milch cows?

A. Yes, there were cows there, stock. I think 3 or 4 head of cows.

Q. Do you know whether or not he sold any milk or has cold any milk from those cattle?

A. I do not.

Q. Do you remember when the horses came up?

A. I wasn't there when they came up.

Q. Don't you think it was in June, 1898?

A. I don't know anything about the horses when they came.


[page 45]


Q. Do you know who employed Buchanan?

A. He told me the English Company.

Q. Do you know who paid him?

A. He told me that the English Company was paying him.

Q. Mr. Buchanan Is now dead? Is he not?

A. Tell I haven’t seen him since last fall.

Q. Didn't you hear he had shot himself?

A. I heard he had, yes.

Q. You think there is only a few acres of land on the opposite side of Skaguay river, that is to the westward, about how many?

A. Oh perhaps an acre and half.

Q. How much is there between Ben's side line and the mountains?

A. I don't know exactly.

Q. A half mile?

A. No not quite.

Q. Is there any reason why the White Pass couldn't be reached up there?

A. Yes sir.

Q. What?

A. There is a big bluff of rocks, quite a considerable quicksand in the bottom. In fact, it isn’t practicable at all.

Q. Is any portion of the Skaguay river on Ben's claim? Does the Skaguay river hit his westerly line at all?

A. It does, at extreme high water.

Q. Is it not practicable to go up the bed of the Skaguay river and reach the White Pass? A. When the river is frozen up it is.

Q. Do you remember some time in the month of June, l897, you came down with Geo. Rice and Maltby, coming in from Moore's camp up the trail went across to Nausak Bay and Morrison went over in a boat and picked you up in a boat and brought you in.

A. Yes sir, I remember it. Thats a fact.


[page 46]


Redirect Examination.


Q. You may state just about the kind 9f and length of that fence you described this morning?

A. Well there was about four or five post in the ground, about five rods of it when I see it. I mean the Moore fence and not the Field fence.

Q. The dock that you designated as the Moore dock is it commonly or almost universally known by any other name? If so state what?

A. I have heard it called the English wharf.

Q. State if you know what class of vessels, whether American or Canadian vessels, land there mostly?

A. Well every time that I have been down at the wharf and there was a ship in it was always an English ship.

Q. When was Capt. Moore's house completed and ready for occupancy? Was it before or after the company store building was occupied?

A. Yes sir, before the company store was occupied.

Q. How long before?

A. That I couldn't nay.  So far as the building being completed, it was occupied before it was completed. Mr. Billinghurst and Billingham was stopping in there at the time.

Q. What time did you as a present citizen of Skaguay, or any of the persons represented in this contest against the claim of Bernard Moore, settle upon and occupy any portion of the pres­ent townsite included within Ben Moore application?

A. June 27, 1897.

Q. About what time did the citizens generally, the first ones, begin to occupy this piece of ground as a townsite?

A. From that time on to the present.

Q. With reference to the logs in what is now the city hall and your trying to collect your claim for work done on that build­ing, have you ever asked any other person or persons, excepting Ben Moore and Capt. Moore for your pay?

A.  Yes sir.


[page 47]


A. I asked Mr. J. G. Price for it.

Q. Why did you ask J.G. Price for it and what did he say?

A. I see that he was occupying the Holmes lot at the time and he told me it was in litigation.

Q. Anything further?

A. I disremember now.


(By the Register).

Q. On page 37 of your cross examination you ask Capt. Moore owns this house. I want to be paid for hauling out the logs. And then you ask the same question of Bernard Moore. You mean for hauling the logs from the woods with which to build the house?

A. Yes sir, thats what I mean.



[signature W. A. Bigelow]



I hereby certify that the foregoing testimony was read by me and corrected in the presence of the witness, and that it was then subscribed to by him at my offices in Sitka, Alaska, this 1st, day of April, 1898.

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